Over the last few months, slavery storylines have made a notable resurgance at Dragon’s Mark’s Rhydin. It’s nothing new — a lot of roleplayers joke that slavery is the second oldest profession in Rhydin. It’s a topic that has always inspired much controversy.
From my point of view, slavery storylines are nothing to get worked up over. If you dig that sort of thing, go for it. Alysia was a member of the Slaver’s Association for a while, and it was enough for me to learn that it’s not for me. I’m not much into BDSM, I don’t get the whole Gorean thing, cyber is a waste of time, and the mind games and whiny subs irritate me.
It’s just a trend, like so many others that filter through the roleplay cosmos of Rhydin. It’s old. It’s as boring to me as the mundane, domestic storylines that are so popular these days.
In a free form roleplaying environment, each and every character that is played as a slave is done so because the player chooses to do so. As long as the site guidelines are being observed, no one has the right to interfere with that.
So it surprises me that some roleplayers are getting up in arms about these storylines. I suspect many who are complaining do not have a lot of knowledge about what is actually involved in that sort of roleplay, but I could be wrong. Would it be quite offensive if the situations involved male slaves owned by female slavers? What’s the damage here anyway, I wonder.
To me, there are worse things out there — like roleplay which trivializes the horrors of rape, child abuse, or drug use, and/or explicitly depicts cruelty and violence for the purpose of prurient entertainment. All of that disgusts me a hell of a lot more than the relationship between Slaves and Masters.
I can’t help (or guess) what someone else finds uncomfortable or controversial. Everyone has different standards and a different set of experiences that define their comfort level. I’m not going to whitewash my character concepts or storylines for someone who might find my roleplay troublesome.
I acknowledge that it is courteous to try to gauge the temperature of the room before launching a scene that might upset people, but where is that supposed to lead? How do I exercise that discretion? I take my dark, twisted, melodramatic RP elsewhere so you can enjoy your light, carefree RP?
Subtlety can be elegant, but not all characters (or players) are suited to subtlety. Or tact. Or grace. That’s just the way life is.
I suppose the players who are offended by this sort of thing could just communicate their discomfort. If you politely ask me to leave off the heavy drama so you can enjoy your simple RP for the night, I may politely agree to dance around your sensibilities and tone down or put off my controversial RP until a later time. However, I hope you will grant me the same courtesy and put a sock in it when I come back to complete my angst-ridden scene. Somehow, I don’t see that happening!
The respect here has to be mutual. If you don’t tell me what sort of characters and storylines I can play, I won’t tell you what sort of character and storylines you can play.
If I am uncomfortable with something I’ve witnessed, it is my responsibility to tune it out, rather than expect a stranger to telepathically discern my delicate sensibilities and start walking on eggshells. It’s easy enough to skip over posts and ignore the players involved. Even if there are a lot of them.
How do you deal with controversial roleplay? What’s your solution for situations that make you uncomfortable?
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If I am witnessing something within role play which is making ME, the mundane uncomfortable my first thought, oddly enough, is with my character.
Would he/she find this uncomfortable or care? What is their reaction? Is it different than mine? Am I making sure not to let whatever feelings I am having as a player, are not leaking into play?
If I filter through character quips and personality and find that they do not care, it’s generally considered something to passingly acknowledge and move on. For example to go along with the topic of slavery, I have one character that pretty much thinks any person weak enough to willingly become a slave, or be caught to be made a slave, deserves it.
On the other hand, I have another character that is deeply, though quietly disturbed as well as disgusted by it. I will role play some of his/her reactions because that’s how the character would react.
If it’s something truly disturbing? Such as child abuse and those topics you’ve mentioned, depending on my mood I will either put them on ignore to ease my own mind or ignore them (as in, not block their text, just not pay attention.)
I would be open and willing to discuss with a player what makes me uncomfortable and even conceed to them on certain points–because lawd knows I am no authority on right and wrong. Especially in role play…But I got so tired of people TELLING me I had no right to ever get uncomfortable over things that didn’t bother them, because they apparently were some sort of gods of specialness that I should just shut up and sit quietly and take it. Even when I was trying to strike up polite conversation over it.
Personally, slavery story lines don’t phase me anymore. BDSM is something I’ve never touched on but have never had issues with–what another person does to fulfill their role playing need, so long as it is not being CRAMMED down my throat (and in this day and age where we can ignore at will, I doubt it ever will be) that I can continue gaming pretty happily.
I thought the purpose of the Ignore function was pretty straight-forward but in light of this “controversy”, I’d say some are having trouble with it. Honestly, there shouldn’t be a controversy. While the recent thread which was put up looked and felt pretty suspect to me, from the outset (and was proven to be later on, both in public and private), I still would defend someone’s right to their opinion even if I think the motive behind it wasn’t to foster any discussion but rather to hurt feelings.
I know the score now, based on actions of the players involved, not by their words and because of those actions, I will make liberal use of the ignore button as that is what it is there for. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but as I recently told another whiner, once you push me to a certain point, the gloves are off.
Having an opinion is one thing. Taking that opinion behind the scenes to rile people up and twisting it with lies to bolster your position, is another. If you are going to be angry with someone, be angry with someone for something they have done and have the proof to back it up, not angry with them for something you think they have done or something you think they will do.
I went through this with my Banning scenario recently.
If you recall I called it the Minority Report excuse and it pissed me off then, and this pisses me off now.
The implication of rape scenes in the RDI, upset me. I’m going to be very honest here, Eve, in saying that that ::points to the lie:: doesn’t fly with me and is why I am both disappointed and angry with certain players who are masquerading themselves as caring individuals when I happen to know better and have been shown otherwise.
I know, for an absolute fact, no rape scenes were done and I challenge anyone to bring me a log which I can click on myself that shows there was. I also happen to know no sex scenes were done and again, if it’s being put out there, I want a log. As far as I’m concerned, if you don’t have proof of your claims you should just shut the hell up
This is in respect to those I play with who were unfairly attacked for absolutely no reason other than the person(s) complaining want some attention and are whiners. Don’t come to me with some ten year old log of some person I don’t know and claim this is the reason behind your complaint. My group was outed, I want proof justifying the attacks made against us in public and in private. It’s really that simple.
I am an adult. I play adult storylines. I abide by the rules of the site and I have never disrespected any gamer for the sake of doing so. I understand my storylines may not be everyone’s cup of tea though most of what anyone would be “uncomfortable” with is played out in private IMs and chats so, honestly, again, there is nothing to scream about.
I deal in facts not hysteria and speculation.
What was done this week pretty much solidifies my opinion of certain players who, are not only hypocritical in that they are playing the *very* thing they are upset about (i.e. slaving SLs) albeit on the sister site, but have a tendency to mother others as if that is any way impressive, necessary or needed.
In light of this faux pas, I will be limiting my play now to those I know who are not going to pitch a fit simply because they see my character’s name being typed more than theirs (because, whether or not anyone owns up to this, this is *exactly* the crux of the issue, Eve, not slaving SLs) in the chatroom.
The public is being led to believe there is rampant abuses going on with my group but the truth is it’s about a little girl crying wolf.
And I don’t care who wants to claim this isn’t the crux of the issue, it is. All one needs to do is ask around. The whole slavery thing is just a front for another agenda because the topic itself draws attention and those complaining are using it as a springboard to highlight their own personal dissatisfaction with themselves and those players who, having grown tired of the games these individuals play, on a *constant* if not infuriating basis, are now ignoring them.
Let me speak plainly here and remind those wanting to say otherwise, I’ve been playing the politics game a lot longer than most as I said in this blog last week.
It is dishonorable, two-faced and pathetic that I have a conversation not three weeks ago with one of the ones complaining and they swear to me they never bash people in the Lobby (but now I have logs which prove otherwise) and they are interested in fair play (and now I know the score on that with the thread in question)
Backstab much? Thank God for the truthsayers out there who, in the interest of exposing lies and agendas they find more distasteful than even I, provide the proof necessary to really get at the heart of the issue.
So, that’s that.
Don’t like me? Ignore me.
Don’t like who I play with? Ignore them.
But don’t you dare lie and say we did something to your or one of your buddies we never did and, to make matters even more hypocritical, go spouting your silly nonsense in the IC rooms while people are trying to play.
Or are we now going to play it like there *is* no such thing as a No OOC policy, hmm?
Yeah.
There is.
Sign me,
Remember what I said about that party and the restraining orders.
@ elf fu
You have a right to get uncomfortable about things, and you’re very brave to discuss your discomfort with another player. Since I’ve never had the guts to approach another player about stuff that bothers me, I’m definitely curious what sort of expectations you have going into that sort of conversation. I can’t see how it could ever turn in a positive discussion!
I don’t think Eve was posting that any specific person/group was involved in rape roleplay in the Inn. I think she was pointing out that there are people who do roleplay stuff that trivializes rape/abuse, and to her those are things that go beyond her comfort level, where the slave/Master roleplay does not cross that line.
On the slavery thing: In the old AOL RDI days, my character thought very little of slaves and tried to free them, get them to assert their independence and grow stronger instead of being weak little simpering things, so on and so forth. OOCly I treated it with much annoyance and condescending eye-rolling. Eventually I realized that they were roleplaying what they wanted to roleplay and even if it was my character’s position that slaves should be freed and slavers should be eradicated, it wasn’t my place to end their roleplay, and OOC respect for other people’s RP trumps the need to be true to my character for the most part. And subsequent to that a trusted friend of mine convinced me to try to roleplay a slave. Buahaha.
Most of my own RP over the past few years has been seen as somewhat controversial; I don’t play a particularly nice character and she has kept company with individuals and groups who are reviled IC and OOC (usually due to wild speculation about the kind of RP that goes on with them by people who are not involved in the RP, insert hysterical accusations about rape/abuse and that these people did these things OOC here).
Obviously I’d like everyone to enjoy my RP as much as I do, but obviously that’s not going to happen (Eve doesn’t even like the same things in RP that I do.
)
If they have a problem with my roleplay, be it IC violence, melodrama, shrewishness, they don’t have to get involved and can either focus on other people’s roleplay or create their own focus.
Similarily, when I run into roleplay that I find too disturbing or controversial, I’ll either just not get involved, ignore them (not pay attention), or go do something else until the scene is over.
Sorry Lil, I should have been a little more clear
None of my comments were directed towards Eve but rather the comments (and lying individuals) made about my group in the the “Uncomfortable” thread on DM which I am referring to as the “Nanny” thread.
I’m glad she brought this up. I’m not allowed to say how I feel on DM because in the immortal words of someone I’m rather disappointed with right now, “I tend to incite riot” ::grin::
Wow.
Guess while I was gone for a year, others took my place.
@Tara
I’m not sure why you’re lashing out at me, Tara, or if your ire is intended for another. Be very sure that you know what is being implied before jumping to conclusions.
Let me clarify that I have indeed seen rape scenes enacted and trivialized at Dragon’s Mark, albeit in forum RP, not in live RP. I don’t think I implied otherwise. I do not equate slavery with rape, although there obviously are those who do. I see that roleplaying either is considered controversial.
However, I have seen sex explicitly played out in live RP at Dragon’s Mark. This is not speculation. I understand the ongoing situations prompted Panther to remind people The Red in RDI is not for Red Light DistrictM. I don’t have enough prurient interest in one-handed typing to keep logs. Again, it’s not something I equate with slavery RP, because most slavers are careful enough to keep that sort of play private.
I don’t believe for a moment there are rampant abuses going on with your group, and I challenge anyone who claims this to prove it. Everything I’ve seen Brutin & Co. do in public RP, whether in a chat room or in the forums, has not crossed over any of the site’s guidelines. The same goes for every other slaving RP group at Dragon’s Mark, although I’m damned sure I haven’t seen everything that goes on.
I do not think it is acceptable for anyone to drop into an In Character chat and start typing Out of Characters comments that are intended to stir up intolerance, hysteria and hatred. I don’t think that’s appropriate for ((The Lobby)) either.
Controversy draws attention to certain characters and storylines, and that attention obviously inspires envy. So I agree that a big part of the recent drama is rooted in feelings of inadequacy and unpopularity.
I don’t plan on shunning roleplay with people because they’ve shown themselves to be two-faced, back-stabbing, and/or intolerant of other playstyles, storylines, or character types – but all the same, I’m more than a little wary about seeking them out.
@Lilithiel
Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to point out.
While you and I are very similar, it is true that we have completely different preferences in RP. Like, I probably spend more time on relationship RP than you can stand. You’re willing to slog through free form combat and I absolutely will not. And you gravitate toward more confrontational and violent RP than I tend to enjoy. Despite some very major playstyle differences, we manage to roleplay together, without snarking (much) or demanding that the other change or find a different place to play.
@ Eve: It was intended for another(s) ::point up:: I don’t know if you saw my response to your sis but none of what I wrote is/was directed at you, rather, I was venting at you, about the situation, if that makes sense. I reread the post though and I can see where you may think that and that’s my bad. Sorry
I’d like to start out by saying that I am not a individual that concludes things without some sort of extensive thought. I have never posed my thoughts in a way that can be construed as rude (aside from http://www.dragonsmark.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13805#13805 ) and that was said after many posts where my valid points and opinions were turned into something else. Much like what’s happening here, though in a much more sly fashion.
The the thread “Make me Uncomfortable,” Lydia’s player simply asked for help in dealing with story lines that make her uncomfortable. If anyone can read the OP with objectivity in mind, they can probably see that.
Nextly, my post was written with a cool head and a sound mind. Everything I said in my post of true, including L’s words being twisted based on others assumptions.
So, what does this have to do with anything? Well, I’d like to see these logs that apparently exist. Please, send them to me. adaliaedodd@gmail.com or a PM on RDI or DM would be fine.
Please, show me who you’re calling a liar (Re: “None of my comments were directed towards Eve but rather the comments (and lying individuals) made about my group in the the “Uncomfortable” thread on DM which I am referring to as the “Nanny” thread.”)
Please, show me the proof? (Re: “It is dishonorable, two-faced and pathetic that I have a conversation not three weeks ago with one of the ones complaining and they swear to me they never bash people in the Lobby (but now I have logs which prove otherwise) and they are interested in fair play (and now I know the score on that with the thread in question)”)
I’m rather curious about this last one, especially.
In your own words, Tara, “As far as I’m concerned, if you don’t have proof of your claims you should just shut the hell up
”
Also, Eve, I’m sorry that your blog has turned to this. I am not trying to be a pain, but I feel that Tara’s public statements within your blog directly involve myself, and I’d really love the chance to actually communicate about it. After all, if she’s allowed to bring up the thread, I am as well, right?
Please, accept my apology for the hijacking, and I hope that everyone would send their replies directly to me, instead of flooding your excellent blog space. ^_^
AHA
misunderstandings.
You know I love you
Actually, Adalia, as long as people can remain reasonably civil, I don’t mind discussions occurring on this blog.
I am curious, though. How do you suggest dealing with an uncomfortable scene? Referring back to your original post in the locked thread at Dragon’s Mark, is there a way to put “being considerate” into practice in live RP? Assuming your RP falls within the site guidelines, how do you judge when it’s time to take something to IMs?
As regards the original blog post, how do you deal with controversial roleplay?
Sorry Eve, I have to put in my two cents.
What’s got Tara riled up about that thread is the behind the scenes stuff that happened with certain participants in that thread. I cite the Public Chat log for RDI Main dated 5/19/08 at the times of 9:00 – 9:59 and 10:00 – 10:59 as one piece of evidence.
That is also an example of inappropriately handling an uncomfortable situation. For me, I try to make an attempt to keep my more controversial stuff out of the main chat rooms. With the different service out there it is easy enough to do.
As for when it is in my face, then there are a few tools at everyone’s disposal, including the ignore function and changing the color or the offending player’s text.
However, the thread did upset people because there was behind the scenes attacks and inappropriate handling of the discomfort level. Plus I still do have the question on why it is a big deal now. That’s what got me thinking that it was an attack, considering the way the OP does tend to participate with another slaver on the site. (See The Chained Inn)
Nothing to be sorry about, Natolii. I really appreciate your insight. What different service do you use to keep the more controversial stuff out of the main rooms? AIM/Yahoo?
Accusations of so called “behind the scenes” attacks need to be backed-up with concrete evidence. Stirring people into an unecessary frenzy over a perceived “conspiracy” is just a little out of hand.
What makes me uncomfortable with that whole thread is the fact that there are individuals who think there was some huge behind the scenes plot to gather a faction to oust a certain group from the site. If this is the truth, then provide concrete evidence. And I mean, concrete evidence of the OP telling someone in a log “I dislike this specific slaving SL group, lets plot their complete and utter online annihilation.” Yet this is how the OP, and others who have responded to the thread, are being treated.
What evidence is there of this “behind the scenes attack”? Are people reading too much into the preceived “attack”? What is the purpose of fostering paranoia on the DM over something that could have been so easily overlooked?
Most times, the simplest explanation for something is the truth.
Bad Juju, who are you at Dragon’s Mark? I’m not particularly keen about allowing anonymous or semi-anonymous comments. Thanks.
I’m not too well known, as I don’t RP too often, but I do poke my head out from time to time on the DM and the RDI. I play Jochin Nagadari
And, as to the OOC being brought up to stir up hatred and mass hysteria.
The person who asked that question in the chat lives in Australia. They logged in at a time where there were only a very scant few players in the room. Yes, things like this shouldn’t be done in the Lobby or in the chat. But this one occurence does not speak volumes about some secret conspiracy occuring behind the scenes.
There are healthy levels of paranoia. But I don’t think this is one of those cases.
Feeding into an attitude of the existence of secret internet plots really serves no purpose, as 9 times out of 10, there aren’t any plots.
I’ve been debating posting here for quite some time now, main reason being.. well.. it’s Eve’s blog. But I’m hoping if others can chime in I can chime in too.
I’m going to try really hard to make it brief.
I vent a lot. I rant a lot. Sometimes I can be a volatile person. More often than not (a lot more often, in fact) though, I keep it private. Something irks at me, I rant a little about it to a friend, then I’m over it. It’s a process I’m not alone in. I state with the utmost confidence I’m sure the majority of the people posting here now do the same. At least a little bit. Vent, get things off your chest. Kink tends to get thrown in the works when ventee makes venter’s words public knowledge though.
When I, or anyone, vent, usually we don’t do so with a clear head. We don’t form articulate thoughts and happy words and sugar coat. We don’t always communicate in the way we want to, and our words are all wtf-ified.
OMG, L SAID BAD THINGS ABOUT X!
Really?? I’m not even going to allow anyone to try to drive that nail in my proverbial coffin, because you (and I mean that not as general, but everyone) do it too. Privately, publicly- whatever. Even about our friends, if they do something stupid or upsetting, we vent. I’m not happy about that aspect of myself, but you know, it’s a very *human* aspect, and *not* one I’m going to apologize to the public at large for. Tara, I have apologized to for it.
All that said, there are certain aspects of slavery SLs that I find icky and yucky. A very vast majority of the time, said yuck (to me) is played on the forums. Which I have no problem with- I just don’t read it there. Sometimes I see certain things in the room that are oiafdhadfs (to me) and vent about it elsewhere. I’m not actually going to go into the details of everything SLwise I’ve vented about, or everything that makes me uncomfortable, because quite frankly? It’s no one’s business but mine and anyone I choose to talk to about it. I can assure though, it’s not all about slavery or Tara or me being out to get/attack/roflcopter someone. There’s numerous things that go on that make me eeeeeh on DM.
So I asked how do people deal with that (the issue of being ‘uncomfortable’ ((God, I hate I chose that word)) not ‘let’s ban this and that and make DM full of unicorns and rainbows).
…hahaha.
More clarification for those who have had this concern… There’s no need to choose sides. Tara herself has told me she doesn’t expect anyone to (I’m assuming she’s okay with me saying that here). And I don’t expect anyone to choose sides. There’s no need. Just play and have fun, okay? Don’t worry about BS.
Semi-related to that; I’m not in a war. I’m not in a battle. I’m not in any of that nonsense. So if people want to keep fighting, perceiving things in a skewed way, attacking people.. you have fun with that. I’m gonna *not* be there when you do that, thanks.
And to ‘Bad Juju’, while I appreciate your sentiments, it’s not necessary.
I don’t want you or anyone else jumping into all this nonsense to try and defend me. I don’t want anyone else catching crap, I just want people to move on and do their online happy gaming thing. I’m pretty sure everyone’s mind is set anyways, and I’m okay with that. I don’t care what strangers on the internet think.
So much for keeping this brief… sorry Eve. :\
One last thing though. To anyone who addressed the issue of the topic, in regards to how to handle things that make you uncomfortable, thanks! Even differing views have made me think about things in a new perspective .